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Today's Kerfluffle...
...happened on the FFML, the Fan Fiction Mailing List, which despite its generic name is dedicated only to anime/manga related fan fiction.
How it started: Two "fic search/requests" by the same person in a row. A fic search/request is something like, "Does anyone know where to find that fic where Ranma's grandmother turns out to be Godzilla, and has a knock-down, drag-out fight with Ken from Fist Of The North Star?" Note: I am making this particular fic request up... but the actual requests you see are often just as goofy. As one Administrator said, "My usual response to these is WHY do you want to find this story at all?"
Anyway, once upon a time the FFML was a high-traffic mailing list and fic requests have always been banned by the FAQ/rules, but tolerated if it's an actual last resort. Which it almost never is, of course... it's usually a request from someone too lazy or clueless to do any actual web research.
This prompted a response from one of the Administrators reminding everyone why most fic requests aren't tolerated on the list. To which someone replied, hey, the list is almost dead, we don't get the kind of traffic we once did, is it really such a big problem? Maybe we should ENCOURAGE more off-topic chatter, at least that means the list will actually have some traffic.
And this resulted in the most messages I've gotten from the list in a single day in years. Big discussion -- why is the list dying? Why can't we expand to allow ALL kinds of fan fiction, as the name of the list would seem to indicate? Are the moderators killing the list? Isn't it really that the list is hard to find and hard to sign up for? Isn't it that the commentary is too extreme, and writers don't like that? Isn't it really that FanFiction.net is killing off the FFML, because after all young writers these days want the instant gratification you get on FanFiction.net, where even godawful work gets positive reviews? Maybe we should move to a web based vehicle. Maybe we should move to Yahoo Groups/insert your destination of choice here.
Etc. Etc. Etc. Although I think so far the points that have been brought up that have some kind of consensus behind them are:
A) It's not that FanFiction.net is killing the FFML per se, it's that mailing lists of all kinds are going away in favor of message boards and other ways of posting stories and whatever. Some people don't even know what a mailing list is or how it works. Newsgroups are dying out too -- things evolve, the internet is always evolving.
B) It really is hard to find out about the FFML and takes effort to sign up for it.
C) The list is a much better place for detailed critiques than a place like FanFiction.net, so it still has a reason to exist.
D) Moving to a web based/message board environment would just make us a FanFiction.net junior. We certainly can't compete with them on their own turf.
E) To survive, the list really ought to expand to include more kinds of fan fiction, or all types of fan fiction.
Anyway I'm not involved in the conversation, but it was interesting to read. I'm probably one of those who is on the wrong side of the debate, because unlike a lot of the old guard of the FFML who really look down on FanFiction.net, I use FanFiction.net and have even been posting stuff there without posting it to the FFML. Some of the old-guard FFML people say that they only want serious critiques and aren't at all interested in posting their work for a wider audience to read. To each his or her own, but I write stories both to please me and to see if they please others as well. ^_^
Meh. I placed an order through Gemm.com for Rudra's The Aryan Crusade. Rudra is a folk metal band from Indonesia (the most popular metal band in Indonesia really). Actually they are the world's foremost "Vedic Metal" band, basing all of their songwriting on ancient Vedic texts, and borrowing instruments and melodies from Indian Classical music, which makes them a sort of Hindu Metal band I suppose. Their use of the word Aryan is based on ancient Vedic/Sanskrit meanings (it refers to an enlightened or intelligent/holy man, not to a race of people).
But basically, they're a weird brand of folk metal that I don't own any examples of yet. And while this is essentially harsh metal with death metal vocals (not really a favorite of mine), I was interested in hearing how they incorporated Indian folk and classical music. The Aryan Crusade is said by some sources to be the cd upon which Vedic Metal was founded, but I couldn't get it through Amazon or Amazon UK. But there was an outfit on Gemm.com that had the cd for sale for less than $9.00, and I figured at that price, it had to be a used copy and if I really wanted it I shouldn't hesitate.
Unfortunately once again, this proved to be a place that was advertising something for sale that they didn't have in inventory and couldn't actually order from anyone else.
I decided from there to do some web research, and found the band's web site, from which I was able to download one full mp3 song from their most recent cd. They also list cds for sale, but they just list prices and an e-mail to contact/pay with, they don't discuss shipping costs to someplace on the other side of the world. And curiously, they list most things in US Dollar amounts, but for The Aryan Crusade they list the amount in Singapore Dollars and specifically state that it doesn't include shipping and handling. Quite confusing, I guess I'd need to contact them first to find out if they'll really ship to me and how much it would cost.
They also list the web site for their own music label, which is no more helpful than Amazon or Gemm.com, really. I can order a couple of their cds from them, I guess, and a tee shirt.
But now I'm not sure what to do, because I'm afraid I'm doing the same thing I did with the viking metal band Einherjer -- focussing on a particular cd from early in their career when probably their most recent (and more easily purchased) cd would be best. I'm sure The Aryan Crusade was a landmark cd because it was the first Vedic Metal cd the world had ever seen -- but that doesn't make it the best example of the genre. In fact it almost certainly makes it a lesser example, the band has no doubt refined their sound quite a bit and the production values on their later material would be much better.
Eh, but I'm also kind of holding off because I promised myself that I wouldn't buy any new music for a while.
*EDIT* Never mind. After all of that I decided that ordering their newest cd direct from their label demonzend records for $11.99 plus S&H was a good deal, so I did it. Bleah. I can't stop myself from spending money. I suck!
In yet other news, on The Works tonight they interviewed a local couple who have written a series of childrens books about an Elephant named Ella. My niece is named Ella. Both she and her mother love children's books. Hmmmm....
How it started: Two "fic search/requests" by the same person in a row. A fic search/request is something like, "Does anyone know where to find that fic where Ranma's grandmother turns out to be Godzilla, and has a knock-down, drag-out fight with Ken from Fist Of The North Star?" Note: I am making this particular fic request up... but the actual requests you see are often just as goofy. As one Administrator said, "My usual response to these is WHY do you want to find this story at all?"
Anyway, once upon a time the FFML was a high-traffic mailing list and fic requests have always been banned by the FAQ/rules, but tolerated if it's an actual last resort. Which it almost never is, of course... it's usually a request from someone too lazy or clueless to do any actual web research.
This prompted a response from one of the Administrators reminding everyone why most fic requests aren't tolerated on the list. To which someone replied, hey, the list is almost dead, we don't get the kind of traffic we once did, is it really such a big problem? Maybe we should ENCOURAGE more off-topic chatter, at least that means the list will actually have some traffic.
And this resulted in the most messages I've gotten from the list in a single day in years. Big discussion -- why is the list dying? Why can't we expand to allow ALL kinds of fan fiction, as the name of the list would seem to indicate? Are the moderators killing the list? Isn't it really that the list is hard to find and hard to sign up for? Isn't it that the commentary is too extreme, and writers don't like that? Isn't it really that FanFiction.net is killing off the FFML, because after all young writers these days want the instant gratification you get on FanFiction.net, where even godawful work gets positive reviews? Maybe we should move to a web based vehicle. Maybe we should move to Yahoo Groups/insert your destination of choice here.
Etc. Etc. Etc. Although I think so far the points that have been brought up that have some kind of consensus behind them are:
A) It's not that FanFiction.net is killing the FFML per se, it's that mailing lists of all kinds are going away in favor of message boards and other ways of posting stories and whatever. Some people don't even know what a mailing list is or how it works. Newsgroups are dying out too -- things evolve, the internet is always evolving.
B) It really is hard to find out about the FFML and takes effort to sign up for it.
C) The list is a much better place for detailed critiques than a place like FanFiction.net, so it still has a reason to exist.
D) Moving to a web based/message board environment would just make us a FanFiction.net junior. We certainly can't compete with them on their own turf.
E) To survive, the list really ought to expand to include more kinds of fan fiction, or all types of fan fiction.
Anyway I'm not involved in the conversation, but it was interesting to read. I'm probably one of those who is on the wrong side of the debate, because unlike a lot of the old guard of the FFML who really look down on FanFiction.net, I use FanFiction.net and have even been posting stuff there without posting it to the FFML. Some of the old-guard FFML people say that they only want serious critiques and aren't at all interested in posting their work for a wider audience to read. To each his or her own, but I write stories both to please me and to see if they please others as well. ^_^
Meh. I placed an order through Gemm.com for Rudra's The Aryan Crusade. Rudra is a folk metal band from Indonesia (the most popular metal band in Indonesia really). Actually they are the world's foremost "Vedic Metal" band, basing all of their songwriting on ancient Vedic texts, and borrowing instruments and melodies from Indian Classical music, which makes them a sort of Hindu Metal band I suppose. Their use of the word Aryan is based on ancient Vedic/Sanskrit meanings (it refers to an enlightened or intelligent/holy man, not to a race of people).
But basically, they're a weird brand of folk metal that I don't own any examples of yet. And while this is essentially harsh metal with death metal vocals (not really a favorite of mine), I was interested in hearing how they incorporated Indian folk and classical music. The Aryan Crusade is said by some sources to be the cd upon which Vedic Metal was founded, but I couldn't get it through Amazon or Amazon UK. But there was an outfit on Gemm.com that had the cd for sale for less than $9.00, and I figured at that price, it had to be a used copy and if I really wanted it I shouldn't hesitate.
Unfortunately once again, this proved to be a place that was advertising something for sale that they didn't have in inventory and couldn't actually order from anyone else.
I decided from there to do some web research, and found the band's web site, from which I was able to download one full mp3 song from their most recent cd. They also list cds for sale, but they just list prices and an e-mail to contact/pay with, they don't discuss shipping costs to someplace on the other side of the world. And curiously, they list most things in US Dollar amounts, but for The Aryan Crusade they list the amount in Singapore Dollars and specifically state that it doesn't include shipping and handling. Quite confusing, I guess I'd need to contact them first to find out if they'll really ship to me and how much it would cost.
They also list the web site for their own music label, which is no more helpful than Amazon or Gemm.com, really. I can order a couple of their cds from them, I guess, and a tee shirt.
But now I'm not sure what to do, because I'm afraid I'm doing the same thing I did with the viking metal band Einherjer -- focussing on a particular cd from early in their career when probably their most recent (and more easily purchased) cd would be best. I'm sure The Aryan Crusade was a landmark cd because it was the first Vedic Metal cd the world had ever seen -- but that doesn't make it the best example of the genre. In fact it almost certainly makes it a lesser example, the band has no doubt refined their sound quite a bit and the production values on their later material would be much better.
Eh, but I'm also kind of holding off because I promised myself that I wouldn't buy any new music for a while.
*EDIT* Never mind. After all of that I decided that ordering their newest cd direct from their label demonzend records for $11.99 plus S&H was a good deal, so I did it. Bleah. I can't stop myself from spending money. I suck!
In yet other news, on The Works tonight they interviewed a local couple who have written a series of childrens books about an Elephant named Ella. My niece is named Ella. Both she and her mother love children's books. Hmmmm....